Having An Edge: Eric Finch

Today you'll find Eric Finch on video thumbnails and blog posts across the web through his insightful YouTube channel Higher Levels. But it's been a long journey from his time at Auburn as an engineering student and goalie for the USA Team Handball residency. How'd it happen? Eric shares why leading with your particular background is an important part of reaching your full potential in a career change. He discusses the competitive drive to race against yourself in your results, and how he turned his job as an engineer into a career which allowed for that drive. He also discusses his pivot into content creation, how to cultivate and maintain an audience, and the specifics of publishing answers to the questions that people on the web are already asking. Perhaps his best advice to the aspiring content creator: don't quit the day-job before you've established revenue in the other.

Transcript

Narrator:

Welcome to the Harbert College of Business podcast with your hosts Sarah Gascon and Curry Dyess.
Eric Finch is the founder and host of Higher Levels, a media producer that shares helpful insight online about the world of tech sales. He is a 2015 Auburn engineering alum and the current goalkeeper coach for USA team, wheelchair handball.

Sarah Gascon:

War Eagle, and welcome to the show, Eric. It's so great to have you here. War Eagle.

Eric Finch:

Yeah, war Eagle. Thanks for having me.

Currie Dyess:

Eric. Look, you've worked across all kinds of different industries, engineering tech, yo u've been an athlete, right? Give us the 30,000 foot view of going from Auburn University to full-time entrepreneur.

Eric Finch:

Yeah, we're about 10 years out from my time at Auburn, and yeah, very high level. I was an athlete at the time with USA team, handball and training. I got an engineering job when I graduated in December of 2015 out in Austin, Texas, which was kind of my first foray into what I would call tech as opposed to just pure engineering. I can explain that further, but it was more like electronics, computers specifically as opposed to more civil engineering, et cetera, et cetera. From there, did not enjoy engineering all that much. Big shout out to all the engineers out there, but I made it three years and really needed to do something different. So I ultimately, one, I realized through that experience I wanted to work for smaller startups and because I ultimately wanted to start my own company down the line, and then I got into sales, have loved it, grown a ton and randomly along about the last four years, find myself now as what I would consider an influencer with a business on the backend. It's kind of crazy that I am a YouTuber and talker and all of the above now, but it is, I'm excited to dive in because I don't find a lot of people talking about the ins and outs of how social media is actually a business, not just something to post and try and farm views and all of those different things. So yeah.

Sarah:

Eric, you didn't set out to be a YouTuber or a content creator. What was the moment you realized your content had real signal, not just views, but the potential to become something much, much bigger?

Eric Finch:

What was interesting, so a few different things I want to hit on because I know a lot of people in college right now and really around the world see social media for the opportunity that it is. It really started as a kind of a passion project towards the end of lockdown, and I had some extra time on my hands. I still couldn't do all that much out and about around town, and I had really started to love tech sales as a career, and I just thought that more people should know about it. One thing we can get into too is I found at the time, tech sales as a term on the internet was being searched a ton. There was no content created for it, so it was kind of a light bulb moment for me of what if I made a YouTube video once a week that had tech sales in the title, just giving out free information about my experience, why I think more people should do it, why engineers who aren't happy don't have to potentially get an MBA or go back to a four year degree to completely retool their career.

I just started making videos and all of a sudden, even with 200 5500 views on these videos, I had comments of like, dude, this video is amazing. I used this video and used your advice and broke into Salesforce, or I did X, Y, Z. Following that, I'm getting more and more comments of like, do do one-on-one coaching. Do you help people break in actively? And that was over the course of about six to nine months after starting to post once a week, and really at that point it's like I started doing that. I started taking impromptu calls with people and it really became clear like, Hey, there's a lot of online trainings, online bootcamps. I didn't set out with the intention to become an online tech bootcamp or a career retooling service, but the videos just getting so many comments of like, do you coach? Can you help me? What would you think about this? It just kind of became obvious and we just followed demand for more of a service and a training beyond that.

Currie:

I might be jumping ahead here, but it seems like, and I'm not a constant creator, so I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like it's hard to convey value in which it sounds like those early viewers were getting, but also enough entertainment that those videos get shared and the algorithm pushes it to people. How do you find that sweet spot?

Eric Finch:

Yeah, it's an interesting question, and I think this is a good one for anyone out there that is really considering content as you want to be entrepreneurial. I think if you're doing anything selling direct to consumer social media is a must. Now, I don't think about the content that I make as how do I make it entertaining or viral? A lot of what you do on YouTube is more like around your SEO, so Google actually makes public the words and the keywords that people are searching for. So when I wanted to make videos about tech sales, I actually saw that tech sales was being searched on Google 10 to a hundred thousand times a month, and the popularity of that term was growing 900% year over year. So when I'm making long form YouTube videos by actually putting tech sales in the title of the video and in my channel, there's a higher likelihood that someone that is already searching for tech sales tips, tech sales advice, tech, sales careers, things of that nature, there's just a higher likelihood they're going to come across my video anyway.

And so since they're already searching that term, they're naturally more interested in learning and they're actually looking more for credible education as opposed to blowing up Lamborghinis like Mr. Beast, there's so many things we could break down there, but I think a lot of people, again, as you get into it, you can't be everything. So do you want to be a highly credible educator? Do you want to be someone who's really valuable and gives out great information for free? And then only if someone wants to work with you directly do you offer something on the backend? You can go the pure entertainment route of Mr. Beast, but you can't be all of those at once. I can't blow up Lamborghinis and teach you about tech sales in the same video, but there's a lot of people that want to break into high earning tech careers and that are naturally going to search for content online. So how do I meet them when they're searching there and how do I instantly become a credible source and communicator of what this career is about, the things they should know, all of those different things, but I'm happy to peel that back further.

Sarah:

Could you also talk about what the moment was like when you went from engineering into tech sales and then tech sales in that moment was like, I think now it's time for me to get into full go higher learnings.

Eric Finch:

I think engineering just by the end of three years, I don't know, I probably put too much pressure on myself to try and make it work. Engineering is notoriously a difficult major. I felt like some sort of obligation to do it, and I really wasn't a huge fan about six to 12 months into my first full-time job, I think I way overthought that, but by the time I got into tech sales, I spent three years doing something that I knew wasn't the long-term path for me, and I was kind of ready to just pour myself into something. Certainly not that money is like everything, but just being a competitive person, I love the fact that I directly get paid for my performance. So if I attain my quota, that is a very intrinsically motivating thing for me. It's not for everyone, but that really kept me motivated and it was kind of all I needed because I had been in a situation where I was working 70, 80 hours a week and not getting paid any more for my efforts at all.

So that was great. I think transitioning from tech sales to being a full-time entrepreneur has been a bit of a challenge in different ways than you expect. Of course, as higher levels started to grow, as it became clear that this could be a full-time business, it's very exciting and rewarding. But then also when you cut off everything I knew for a decade of working for multiple different tech companies, there's a weird routine and habit you get into as a full-time employee where you feel like nine to five, you have to be doing something. One of the biggest challenges I think now running higher levels full-time is there's a lot of stuff to do, but also trying to remove myself from some of the lower level tasks and really trying to make sure zoom out instead of trying to focus on how hard I can row the boat. I need to focus on where the boat is going, what obstacles are in the way, and how to ensure that we are successfully and most efficiently navigating the whole thing versus making sure I write every single blog post or making sure I respond to every single customer service request or all of these different things. So that's been probably the biggest challenge for me.

Currie:

Taking a step back. So you talked about SEO, and I'm very curious, this is something Sarah and I have talked about a lot. How do you view LLMs changing SEO? Do you have to optimize differently?

Eric Finch:

Yeah, so I guess what you're talking about is optimizing for showing up in a chat GBT response or Gemini response, something like that.

Currie:

Yeah,

Eric Finch:

Yeah. I would say a couple things on that. It's kind of the wild west right now. I'll break this down further, but if you're making high quality content and you're smart about traditional SEO, that is still a strong foundation for AI for LLM. So if you can't get your video on YouTube to show up on the first page, or if you can't get your blog post to show up on the first page for the thing that you want, it's going to be really hard to then show up in chat BT or show up in Gemini. But beyond that, I will say what's interesting, one of the things I found is Gemini and some of the LLMs actually put a higher priority on blogs that have an embedded YouTube video or embedded media in them. So if you are a content creator, if you do have tiktoks or YouTube videos or Instagram posts that are going viral, if you embed those in a blog post on your website as well, there is a higher likelihood that those things do show up in ai, but it's still early innings. I've tried a lot of things. We are starting to come up for some searches, but man, that's probably a podcast in of itself, and I can go deeper if you want, but yeah, for sure.

Currie:

No, no. It's just something we were super curious about. How similar is it? How dissimilar? I truly do not know.

Eric Finch:

Yeah, I think one of the biggest differences in challenges with AI LLMs and what they're calling GEO or generative engine optimization, which is a fancy way of saying, how do I get my stuff to show up in a chat GPT response, the biggest difference from traditional SEO and GEO is that they don't expose that. So like SEO, there's free tools like Google, keyword Planner, SEMrush, all of these different things, and they actually show you what people around the world are searching and putting in Google. There is no equivalent for that right now with chat BT or Gemini and the requests are getting much more complex. So in Google, I might go how to break into tech sales, and that's my search on chat. Bt I might say, Hey, I'm a 45-year-old doctor and I want to completely change careers, and I've been looking at tech sales. I live in Detroit, Michigan. How do I even break into tech companies? What are the best tech companies and how do I position my experience to fit in? And that's a completely different game that you're trying to show up for than your traditional SEO.

Sarah:

So your content often discusses breaking into tech sales. What's a common misconception about career hunts in this field that you'd like to correct?

Eric Finch:

I think especially coming from Auburn, all respect to my time at Auburn, I absolutely loved it. I think a lot of times we see high tech or you think San Francisco, Silicon Valley, it's geographically on the other side of the country, but it's way more approachable than you realize. One, if you're not a computer science degree, you don't need one to break into a sales career or a marketing career or customer success. A lot of people, especially startups, are way more open to backgrounds of all types, but it's not like you just show up and say, Hey, I studied communications. I want to work in tech sales. If you show up and you've done research with either free information like we provide on our YouTube channel or certifications, bootcamps, things of that nature, if you show up to tech companies, especially startups, they are way more willing to hire backgrounds of any type that are very motivated that actually know what they're getting into that have done research on their own and show that they can do things themselves.

I just say this specifically to the Auburn student listening to this podcast, tech is a way more open and inviting career for the person who really wants it than you would think. So that's a big one. I mean, last point I would say is the people we work with at higher levels have truly ranged from 18-year-old high school graduates to 50 plus year olds making career changes. So there is truly no one background, no one degree, no one persona that they're really looking for. They're open to the right person who really knows what they're doing, has done a lot of research and wants to come in and do really well.

Sarah:

Just as a follow up, do you feel that some people that are going to you, they feel a little intimidated by that the career change or maybe the 18-year-old that's really not sure about what's going on and what they're doing with their life? Do you feel like there's a little bit of intimidation about getting into the tech sales space?

Eric Finch:

I think so. It really depends on the person you see anything from. Certainly people who I think undervalue their skillset, and that was me by the way. I way overthought it. I was like, I don't have sales experience X, Y, Z. I was an engineer at a major tech company. I was the persona of the people I now sell to. And so that alone made me extremely qualified and I discounted how well my skill sets translated into that role. I've seen people, yeah, 18 year olds, it's not just to say like, Hey, if you messed around in high school and got a 2.0 GPA, probably going to be difficult for you to break into tech sales. But if you're very focused, maybe you find your way into an internship or even just a part-time sales job to build experience. 98% of students graduating college don't have sales experience, so I don't care what your degree is, I don't care if you had a 4.0 GPA, I don't care about any of those things.

If you can't pick up the phone, if you can't email, if you can't really deal with a type of, there's a very different stress. It's not worse or better, but it's just a very different vibe than my engineering job. When you have a quota over your head that you have to hit, it's a very different dynamic day to day than coming into a job where if you kind of get your work done, do what you need to do, that paycheck is there no matter what. So if you show attributes and willingness to be in that environment and show that you can thrive and figure things out quickly, that's more important. It's hard to say the exact blueprint to do that, but it doesn't matter your background. And yeah, maybe some are intimidated, some are overconfident. I've basically seen everything coming into it.

Currie:

Eric, whenever you made that transition into entrepreneurship, did you feel like you were equipped or was it similar to whenever you were going from engineering to sales? Did you undersell yourself or were you like, this is a natural progression? If I can sell, I can own a business?

Eric Finch:

Yeah, I mean it was more of a progression. I think that's what I would also say to the students out there listening to this now is there's so much that goes into social media, but it's like an unbelievable opportunity. The fact that you can quite literally with a modern iPhone have production quality videos for YouTube, for TikTok, for Instagram. I say that for your question because by the time we ultimately decided to go full time, we had been operating as a full on business for almost three years. So we had consistent revenue coming in. We had built to a pretty sizable business while working our day jobs before we just, it's not like we quit cold Turkey had $0 coming in and we're like, we're going to brute force it and figure it out. When we made the switch, we had a lot of security and insurance, and I just say that to the person out there, the business school student that's listening to this is you don't have to quit your job and then start your social media channel tomorrow.

If you get a job that's paying the bills, that's allowing you to save a little bit of money and put discretionary income towards this side business, I think that's a better situation. And you are better served actually for a year or two trying to explore social media, make social media first, and then only once you have consistent signal you've actually monetized in some way, shape or form consistently, not just one month, then it's a lot easier to go full-time on it as opposed to this naive idea you're just going to quit cold Turkey and then figure it out.

Currie:

I think maybe another naive idea would be that an individual needs a lot of subscribers or a lot of followers to do this full time. What do you have to say to that?

Eric Finch:

Yeah, I mean, I won't get into the super specifics, but we basically matched my corporate salary with about 12,000 YouTube subscribers. So that's not coming from ad revenue by the way. It's not like we made that on ads, but we got to the point where with a very, very concentrated following in a high value niche, as an example, I'm making videos about tech sales. Tech sales, if you perform, has the opportunity to make significant money within three to five years in your career. So someone who wants to break into that, someone who is trying to make more money is usually willing to spend more money to improve their lives, improve their career. So because of that, if you had 10,000 followers, but you were talking about candy might be a little bit tougher if you're selling a $2 pack of gum to get to that point.

But we sell a very high value product. We have helped tons of different people break into this career path. And like I said, the average viewer on our side is willing to pay a considerable amount because one, we provide value and we provide the service we say we do. But two on the back end of that, within three to five years in a tech sales career, if things go well and you do perform, you can clear 200,000, $300,000 a year. So that has helped a lot. And again, a lot of that is going to be situation dependent, but it's absolutely possible with 10,000 subscribers to make $10,000 a month or whatever it may be pending your situation. So

Sarah:

You all have selected topics based off of your experience at the beginning as opposed to what you're doing now. Has it changed much over time?

Eric Finch:

Yeah, it's a great question. It's definitely evolved. I think early on it was all about breaking in. Imagine in 2000 when computer science and computer programming was becoming mainstream. We had that moment in 2020 to 2023 for tech sales. Everybody wanted to get into tech sales, one of the most popular careers on social media. And so when I first started making content, it was all about breaking in. And also at that point, when I posted my first video, I was just over two years into my career, so the thing that I knew the most was breaking in how did I break in? How did I rapidly promote from entry level to mid-level, right? That's where a lot of our content focused. And then like I mentioned, we made content for about three to four years before going full-time. So as I continue to ascend in my career, work on bigger deals, work with bigger clients, over time, the content naturally kind of grew with it. But now at this point, the nice thing is we can talk pretty much about everything beginning to end, top to bottom of the entire career path, but it definitely has grown and evolved over time.

Sarah:

And just as a follow up, talk to us about your career. I mean, I'm assuming that there was some travel involved. I'm assuming you had to talk to some big names at different points. Tell us a little bit about that.

Eric Finch:

Yeah, I think for the right person, I love tech sales. Obviously the earning potential is there, but even more than that, one of the things as an engineer, I was really sold when I broke in is you're going to work with the best brands in the world. You're going to work with the biggest companies. And it's not, that wasn't true, but certainly at the entry level it's, Hey, I need you to unplug and replug this thing, or I just need, hey, one module of this is not working. And it was a sophisticated problem to solve, but it was at the very low level. I'm dealing with a $20 an hour problem for Tesla as opposed to designing an entire system for a multi-billion dollar project. One of the things with tech sales, it's definitely different. It's not quite the same as engineering, but again, if you do well, the clients you work with and the types of problems you get to help solve escalate rather quickly.

So within the span of five years, I went from selling to zero to a hundred person companies to the last year I was in tech sales. My clients were like Morgan Stanley, TD Bank. I did some work with JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs, and I'm working with quite literally the biggest banks in the world. I'm traveling 50% to 75% of the time. I'm going to Manhattan, Toronto or Chicago basically every week. And with that, yeah, you get to see all types of problems. We can definitely unpack this more, but it's not solving the problem in an engineering sense. But I think what's really different from engineering where you kind of get into the weeds of the solution at the sales side, it, it's very interesting to see how a hundred thousand person bank is looking at literally how something insignificant, the volume of support tickets they get or account resets or reset my password that costs like tens of millions of dollars to these huge banks who have dedicated customer support reps, who also all of these tickets or requests like don't get allocated correctly. And if someone can't get their account recovered within 24 hours, they churn and go to a different bank. There are so many problems that you see at a much higher level in sales that I didn't quite get to the point where I saw it in engineering. So it was very cool.

Sarah:

Yeah. Can we unpack that a little bit? The difference of working with the smaller groups as opposed to those big dogs?

Eric Finch:

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, for anyone that is considering the career path, I think it's really interesting when you are working with smaller companies, obviously you're not selling quite as much. It is very rare that you would sell a multimillion dollar deal to a small company. But the fun thing is, is that there's tons of small companies and they like to move very fast. So if you're on top of all of your stuff, you're very organized. I had a situation and one of the biggest deals I closed early in my career, this is right when COVID locked everything down. So that was March, I think, of 2020. That following November was the first ever Black Friday where you literally physically in some states were not allowed to go into retail stores. So everyone is buying products online. And at the time I sold a database, we had an e-commerce company come in and in October their database was already crashing.

So within a month and a half, we had to figure out if they could move to our database, what that would look like. There was a ton of work that went into it. But basically in the scope of a month and a half, they migrated their entire company onto our new database. And every single day from the Wednesday before Thanksgiving to the Monday after was a new record in company revenue for the entire company. So in the span of one week, that company did 80% of their annual revenue in one week because of the Black Friday sale. So that's like an extreme example of a really cool problem that you get to work with with a small company that moves fast, is ready to break things, and then as you go to bigger and bigger deals, it becomes way more complex. You have to navigate company politics.

It's not always one advantage is if you're working with a small company, it's a significant problem. You're talking to the executive team within two to three calls. There are times where when I'm selling to Morgan Stanley or some of the biggest companies in the world, I don't even know who's buying. I'm talking to someone who's 25 levels down from the CEO and the person that's actually has the budget and will buy this is like 16 levels down from the ceo EO, I don't even know who that is. I got to figure all that out. I've got to navigate across the entire company to figure all of those pieces out. They're similar skill sets, but very different in execution. So

Currie:

Fast forwarding to you being the owner as a founder, what's the hardest leadership lesson that you learned or the hardest business decision that you made early on, and what did that teach you about accountability at the top

Eric Finch:

Early on? This kind of goes into some of the social media side. So just for reference, we have our social media channel that all funnels to our primary website, which is higher levels.com. One of the things on social media, it's really exciting when you get started. There's kind of different evolutions of it when you first start actually growing on social media, even 500 to a thousand followers on any platform, I started getting people reaching out to me wanting to sponsor videos, pay us $500 here, a thousand dollars there. And I think I just had an intuition that if I started promoting random products on our channel early on, people would be like, ah, forget this guy. And we didn't even have a product to sell ourselves at the time. But I think that was one thing that was probably a harder decision early on is don't take that a thousand dollars here, don't take that $1,500 here, because I just knew, I could tell with the quality of comments, the quality of interactions, I would take calls with random viewers here and there very sparingly. I could tell that if I showed up with some ginger shot or something on the next video, it was just going to rub everyone the wrong way. So I think turning down five, $10,000 in year one to then build a very reputable and trustworthy brand long-term was absolutely worth it, but maybe difficult in the beginning.

Currie:

Looking ahead, what's your vision for higher levels and the broader tech sales industry in the next three to five years?

Eric Finch:

Yeah, I mean, so much is changing with ai. I think at least I'll start with higher levels. For us, it's really about, we have a really great motion. We've truly broken more people into tech companies than any company in the world at this point. So for us now, we want to leverage that in kind of the brand equity and value to work more with high growth companies. So I actually go from just training individuals to actually training their entire sales teams, and that's something we're already having success with. I mean, tech sales as a whole, everything is changing rapidly with ai. I think we've seen, there's been a lot of public efforts to try and automate sales tasks with AI that have largely failed. I think it can handle 10 to 20% of the work that sales reps are doing. So anything right now, there's going to be new jobs that are created.

But right now, the traditional model, I think you'll see a bit of a shrinkage in terms of how many warm bodies you need. But I would say that to anyone that's listening to this that's interested in the career, if you can handle ai, if you have AI automating, not just doing things for you, anyone can go in and say, Hey, write up an executive summary or write my five page business paper for me. That's not what we're saying. If you can actually get AI to get you very detailed and accurate results in one shot. So if I've gotten to a point with AI myself where all of our blog posts, all of our company emails, all of our company assets are now made with AI at a very high degree of accuracy, and I have saved 10 to 20 hours a week. If there are things like that where you can come to the table, you're going to be able to ride this out and kind of ride the wave and still do really well, but it is something you should be aware of. And yeah, I think there's still tons of opportunity.

Sarah:

So what advice would you give young people starting out on a similar journey as yours?

Eric Finch:

Yeah, I think to any undergrad student there, if you get into your first job and you don't like it and you feel that way for a year, year and a half, two years, you got to make the change. No one's coming for you. There's not a new semester where all your classes reset and you no longer have that professor you don't like. Don't make an irrational decision like two months in. But if you really don't like something for like 12 to 18 to 24 months, you got to take it on you to make a change. And I would also say to also the head ambitious business school student that wants to start a business, don't put in your mind that you're going to raise $10 million. You're going to quit your job cold Turkey with nothing, and then start building social media. It's still growing. It's still early innings, but it is the most incredible sandbox and test bed for you to try your ideas.

So if you have a direct to consumer idea, if you want to make some cooking brand, you don't need to quick cold Turkey, raise $250,000 to buy inventory and then try to start your company. You can make cookware reviews, you can make videos about how to cook with this product. You can see if people even care about what you're talking about or if you can get people to even watch and listen within the category of the business you want to make. Then from there, by the time you're ready to start a business, maybe you've started a newsletter, you've just captured simple emails or phone numbers one to two years down the line while you've been working in your day job and building social media, now you've got a thousand people that not only follow you but have given you their email. There's your initial set of customers, and now you can jump into entrepreneurship at a way less risky situation than just quitting cold Turkey and I don't know, just chasing dollars randomly.

So I think social media, again, we could dive into it, but it really is an amazing opportunity not to make money in year one, but if you can make content in the topic of the things you're passionate about with business, if you can get people like hundreds of thousands or millions of people to watch your videos selling something will naturally come. So I think go that way. Don't quit or make starting a business like this big thing in your mind. Take small steps every day. Use social media as an incredibly free, high leverage way to test things. And then once you have strong signal, you can easily launch into a business. And I think today, last thing I would say is pending where you're at and what you want to sell. I think especially at the entry level, you can easily match your salary today with social media, with two plus years of good effort and then go full time versus starting from zero, quitting cold Turkey, traveling to Bali for six months and then trying to piece it together from there.

Currie:

Yeah, that's

Sarah:

Great

Currie:

Advice. Very, very, very good advice. Well said.

Sarah:

Eric, it's been so great having you on our show today. How can our listeners follow you, your story and reach out to you if they have any questions or curious about anything or if they actually want to join your higher levels club?

Eric Finch:

Yeah, for sure. So we run higher levels.com. Yeah, tons of information, blog posts, videos there. Our social media is tech sales with higher levels on YouTube. And then TikTok, I would say is our other primary channel, and that's me at Eric at, I think it's Eric, higher levels on TikTok. Lastly, if you guys want to send me an email, eric@higherlevels.com is a great place to reach out to me directly as well. Just put your from Auburn in the subject or in the email, and there's a much higher likelihood I'll respond. I do get like a hundred emails a day now. So yeah, if you could just say War Eagle or something in the subject line, that's a great way to get in touch.

Currie:

Eric, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure, and that was really outstanding information.

Sarah:
Yeah, we appreciate it. War Eagle.

Eric Finch:

Yeah, War Eagle. Thanks for having me.

Narrator:

Harbert. Inspiring business.